>>341200
>Let's just say that she gets really vulnerable when it's about him.
To rephrase what Cruxador said, it is most certainly not clear from your storytelling.

>And she never said that she was good at killing -- she said that, in theory, she has what it takes to just KILL someone, not to do what comes from a murder(like running away from the police).Also, she's absolutely crazy, just has some reasons to be liek that -- what moral stool?
What reasons? Give them in the story. The fact that Isuzu is the protagonist and that she bills herself as an agent of karmic justice or of God gives me the impression that the story wants me to believe she is in the right. And what I think of her personality aside, it seems to be reinforced by the fact that Isuzu ispainted as a spotless person. Her hair is perfect, her clothes unruffled, her room devoid of clutter.

>First, Izu IS a weeaboo, as you'll see when you meet some friends of her.
Again, you don't make this clear. The fact that she has both a Western and a Japanese name, without any explanation for why that is so, gives me cause to think that this is a self-insert for a depressed wapanese. In any part of a good story, the beginning no less, you have to give a clear and not misleading stepping stone for your readers to be able to judge Isuzu's character.

And why don't you talk about her home life, which must have had a big role in her getting to where she is now? "Good" parenting, or the lack thereof, plays an enormous role in a person's development. Perhaps her parents had different beliefs about how to deal with each other and with their child and fought constantly, creating in Isuzu a cognitive dissonance where she believes people should treat her nicely (the belief of one parent) but anyone who shows the slightest disapproval of her is unworthy of her politeness (the other's conflicting belief).

I'm not saying all characters must necessarily elaborate on their "interesting" family histories, or that they must necessarily be the way I described, but for someone like Isuzu it seems especially important to make your readers understand why she is as crazy as you say she is. You don't have to put the whole explanation at the very beginning, but you should at least start leading into it. Otherwise, you gloss over what should be a primary plot point in a truly intriguing story, and it just becomes a psycho killer flick as intellectually vacant as A Nightmare on Elm Street.

>>341221
Let me rephrase a sentence in my second paragraph: Isuzu is the protagonist in a story told from the first-person perspective, and so it gives me the impression that the story wants me to believe her when she bills herself as an agent of justice.

>>341217
>There's a difference between criticism and abuse. Being critical isn't an excuse to forego basic courtesy
This is true! Luckily, people are being courteous while criticizing, and no abuse has occurred.

>Fuck your hugbox mentality
Well, that wasn't really criticism, although it would certainly be possible for you to make a positive change to your own attitude based on that comment. But I mostly posted that because fuck your hugbox mentality.

>>341223
>no abuse has occurred.
>FUCK YOUR HUGBOX MENTALITY

>>341218
>fucking moron
>ignorant savage
I could go on, but it's as clear as it can be made.

>>341225
Why is it a bad thing, even if it is "abuse"?

...I really didn't mean to start a flamewar.

>>341221
Your arguments are completely valid.About the "she's perfect, the story wants to put her as a warrior from God" thingy, ever read/watch Death Note?
About the glasses boy, "R", I really thought I made her weakness when she was about to pass out from the tasing.But looking back, really it does need to be expanded.

I won't say any more.As Cruxador noted, I should just keep quiet about the plot.

Oh, nd about the art.If I thought it wasn't an issue, I would just do a stickgirl in a ponytail and say: "That's Izu for you guys!".

>>341228
Because it hurts people's feelings, and hurting people's feelings is bad. That's why it's important to be polite when you're being critical. Abuse is neither.

The quest has barely started so there's tome for plenty of DRAMATIC REVEALs of character backstory later. But I do have an issue with the ending of chapter 1: it is not immediately obvious whether Isuzu's flashback/blackout occurred due to her being tazed, or whether it occurred spontaneously and she was tazed while spacing out.

>>341221
The story hasn't really been going on for long. Character exposition is probably something that will come in time.

As for the mental instability, we have been told that she has been hearing voices since she was young. That's not really a sign of being sane. Quite likely that she is schizo, possibly with paranoia added on top of that. Which is not good for sanity, quite a few serial killers has had that combination.

>>341231
Why is it bad? Can you explain that?

>>341233
>The story hasn't really been going on for long. Character exposition is probably something that will come in time.
That may be true, but I will repeat: The story should lead into this from the very beginning.

>>341230
>Your arguments are completely valid.About the "she's perfect, the story wants to put her as a warrior from God" thingy, ever read/watch Death Note?
I haven't, but even if Death Note does its story similarly, I think my criticism still holds. The fact that something is popular does not necessarily make it better.

>About the glasses boy, "R", I really thought I made her weakness when she was about to pass out from the tasing.
Physical weakness isn't so much important in a character as mental weakness - an aspect of the character that makes them less than what you believe is a paragon of a thinker, and makes them human in the eyes of the reader. In tragedy it's called a tragic flaw; and while some might say that humanizing aspects aren't necessarily tragic flaws, in so saying they forget that all humans fall, eventually.

>death note
tl;dr main character logically justifies mass murder while remaining morally reprehensible.

>>341235

Stories with enigmatic protagonists can't be interesting now? Stories can be just as easily be lame if they all start off with "I am X son of Y, and I'm doing A for reasons B and C." There are plenty of good quests that involve first person where not only we, as the participants, but also the characters don't know things about themselves. It's can just as likely that the story will be for the better if we find out stuff later. You have no idea what will result in the future. As for your point about mental flaws, remember that this is being told from the 1st person. We could have an unreliable narrator. Time will tell if flaws come to light in the course of the story.

>>341228
>>341234

That's kinda how the word "abuse" is defined. If abuse is occurring, it is by definition negative.

>>341237
Perhaps. Time will tell, as you say, I suppose.

>That's kinda how the word "abuse" is defined. If abuse is occurring, it is by definition negative.
Negative does not always mean something is bad, depending on the situation. Perhaps I am doing something that seems negative now, but what if there is a long-term benefit? Should I not endure, say, hard exercise, if I want to be fit in the long run? Should I not endure harsh criticism if I aim to be both a better artist and a more resilient person?

What I am asking you is this: If it is bad for those posters you criticize to try to impose stern judgment on someone, what makes you think it is necessarily better to put it gently to them?

>>341239
Or more gently, in any case.

>>341225
>fuck your hugbox mentality
That's not abuse. It's an honest recommendation. Also you're a bitch and we were discussing criticism to Executioner

>Seal being Seal
That shit is normal. That's just how he talks.

>>341230
>...I really didn't mean to start a flamewar.
No worries bro. We do this all the time.

>ever read/watch Death Note?
Just because Death Note did something well doesn't mean you can too. Besides, a huge part of the point of Death Note, at least early on, was that he was a real exemplary dude, before he got his pinch of power. And you shouldn't mimic existing media too heavily either.
That said I think you're doing it just fine.

>>341231
If somebody's feelings are that fragile on the internet, then they need to man the fuck up.

Oh yeah also
>...That bitch, Julia...! Using my weaknesses to ambush me!
People aren't that upfront about their weaknesses. Or any other aspect of their personality.
>Dammit, R!Why do I miss you that much?I wouldn't be here if I didn't run away to get to you...
This is way over the top.

People are saying shit here and you're listening to it, which is good in theory. But you're overcompensating by a fucking mile. Don't. You were doing better being less explicit. In particular: Show, don't tell.

>>341225

Who, exactly, was I abusing with those statements?

Abuse, by its very nature, requires a target.

Of course, it may be more prudent to take this to IRC so as to not clutter up a discussion thread with a tangent.

>>341241
>That's not abuse. It's an honest recommendation.
It is neither honest nor a recommendation, merely a random attack, and there was no justification for it. It isn't criticism, because it didn't illustrate or indicate a mistake of any kind.

>No worries bro. We do this all the time.
Some people do. Other times, we manage to get things done in spite of them.

>If somebody's feelings are that fragile on the internet, then they need to man the fuck up.
Blaming the victim. You are responsible for your own actions.

Okay no, seriously, that's fucking enough. Like I said in the last post, argue about abuse in IRC. Anyone else posting in this thread about this entire line of argument is getting banned for 3 days.

Show, don't tell. One of the MOST important parts of storytelling properly! You have art. Her room could have been decorated by Higurashi posters or some shit, if you wanted to make her weeaboo. If she's supposed to be vulnerable around x dude, make it clear in how her mannerisms change in the art. If you have to tell us something, here, in this thread, you're failing as a storyteller. Especially if you have a visual medium to help you.

The quality of the art is fine. The way you use it needs a little work.

I stand by my feelings in regard to the moral aspect of the quest: Rather, there isn't one. There isn't one that should be expected. Quest authors can easily make interesting stories about whatever moral standpoint they want, whether it's an unrepetant murderer, a deposed prince who wants to be the greatest evil, or ponies who want to retrieve bags or fix clocks.

I'm just testing around with this quest.This is a sudden idea that popped up in my mind one day, and I decided to see what happened if I made this idea into a quest.

Cruxador,I need to say that you are giving me really good ideas to keep this quest in shape, along with reasonable criticism.Also, the Death Note thing was a comparation I made on the spot.

My very first idea was "What if we accompanied and led a girl on her way to revenge?" And I just went and made a quest.Now I do have the plot almost all set up, just waiting for "Little X" to turn this story inside out.

I don't think any other quest on tgchan has ever gotten a hate thread made about it, much less one like two days after it started.

If you think The Executioner's art is even in the bottom 50% of tgchan quests, you clearly weren't here for our first year or so. Even these days, we get quests with terrible art which nobody spazzes out about.

Hell, it took me a minute to realize this wasn't a new Gnoll quest.

What are you guys even talking about? This quest is maybe 3 days old. Not everyone is characterized well yet but it's only just starting.

Sheesh. I've never seen a quest with such awesome art attract such hate so quick.

Anonymous 2011/02/19(Sat)18:21 No. 31461 ID: 2eac65
File 129816846319.jpg - (18.02KB , 459x478 , playful_bunny.jpg )

Okay, we've had more than enough of that.

Here! Look! It's a bunny rabbit! Isn't it cute? Doesn't it just melt your heart? Doesn't it make you wish we could all get along and stop arguing about hate and rudeness and all that icky stuff?

>>341247
It's looking good so far. All the plusses of a Reaver quest, without the squicky fetish stuff. And those were pretty popular, so this'll do well.

>>341245
This is wise.
>>341244
Seek me out on IRC for a refutal, if you care.
>>341260
Seek me out on IRC for an explanation, if you care.

>>341258
Advice != hate

>>341255
>I don't think any other quest on tgchan has ever gotten a hate thread made about it
Well, you're wrong. Especially if you count this level criticism by people who are clearly already engaged to be "hate". But prior to now, most of this sort of thing has happened in the anon thread. Since that's dead and gone, we can predict more of these, until and unless someone makes a generic "roast of /quest/" thread.

>>341258
>>341261
You people disgust me. Do you honestly dismiss all this criticism as mere hate?

>>341261
>>341258
>Hate
Really?

If we really hated it, this thread wouldn't exist. What we're trying to do is turn obvious potential into something even better than the current offering.

>>341268
Lie.

People only create threads if they LOVE something or HATE something. Nothing in between.

What happened here was something which started simply as quest-bashing (hate), and then OTHER people began to give advice (which was a reaction to the overly negative OP, else they wouldn't have GIVEN A SHIT).

And now people start terrible meta-arguments about the intentions of other posters, WHICH IS NEVER A GOOD IDEA, because people's IQ drops in relation to their amount of "assuming" and "interpreting".

Observe further quest development and draw conclusions then.

I will hide this thread now.

>>341264
>>341268

Let me make this a bit clearer. The reason I criticism your criticism/advice giving is that I really don't think Executioner NEEDS it. It's got pretty good art, and I'd like to see where its going.

I'm mostly mystified by how it generated this thread. It's great... so why would the author need a mass of advice on how to do it?

>>341255
I'm not good enough at animu to draw Executioner.

>>341276
Everyone NEEDS a mass of advice. Having a whole bunch of opinions on what you're doing is integral to making something that appeals to a lot of people. It allows for much greater improvement than sitting in an echo chamber. Of course, not everyone gets that advice. Executioner is already one where people care enough to give it. This is pretty unusual since it's not from an already popular author. It thus ends up seeming a bit abnormal because most folks are on IRC and get shit of this nature there. They also have discussion threads already, from earlier quests, where this stuff gets discussed. 00Km doesn't come on IRC to my knowledge, and there wasn't a discussion thread prior to this.

So this is where it happens.

>>341283
And if I tried to color my panels, I would...die.

>>341284
Yes.Let me say one thing: If this discussion/"HAET" thread didn't start, Executioner would be utterly DOOMED.Just compare Chapter 1 with Chapter 2.The art improved, and there's much more interactivity between Izu and the players.(I had a panel with Izu smashing the door window with the backpack ready with me.You really got me on surprise there).
As I already said, I made the first four panels -and posted them here- on impulse.OP was absolutely right on the "not trying" issue.This very discussion thread has saved an entire quest.

>>341218

The trouble is that for nine of ten quests being run, the art is different degrees of "utterly terrible." For the majority of quests, the art achieves a score of "does not rate." It'd be a big fat zero except that the norm is for the art here to be shitty. For the one of ten quests that does have decent art, sure, it counts. But for the most part the art in Quests is just another excuse for a hugz fest.

Now the art outside of Quests proper, on the Oekaki board and on the fun side-pieces that show up in Quest-Discussions, that sometimes has merit. I guess that's because the authors take the time they need there, instead of letting the moment rush them into producing sub-par work. And that's cool.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that most quest authors suck at doing anything quickly, and that we should not let the worst parts of their Quests drag down the rest of the game.

>>341296

>the art achieves a score of "does not rate."

Oh no, it certainly rates. Even bad art rates far more highly than none.

After all, the writing in 9/10 text quests is equally shitty. Are we just supposed to not judge those quests in any way at all?

>>341300

Considering that they were mostly made to appeal to the vanity of the authors, yes. Yes, that's the right approach to take. Do not criticize them, either ignore them or ladle adoration on the authors for having the temerity to post their shitty art and crap story for the entire world to see.

Maybe jerk them off too, I dunno, that part is up to you.

>>341301

Thanks.

It's not often that someone makes enough of an ass of themselves to make me look like the reasonable one. This is like a rare gift, one to be savored.

I suppose that's all that needs to be said here.

>>341296
What about terrible, terrible writing? There are certainly quests with terrible, terrible writing, right?

>>341303

Yeah, usually the quests with bad art have bad writing too, but sometimes it's the other way around. If the quality of the quest's art or writing falls below a certain level I just ignore it in terms of assigning value to that quest.

Once in awhile the art or writing is so bad that it actually detracts from the quest. The Executioner suffered from that for the first part, with the writing being so poor that it detracted from the rest of the story. Nice to see this author is shaking it up a bit though.

>>341302

Hey I'm just telling you what I think. And what I think is that most quests would be much better if the authors took some real pride in their work and put some time into it. You can tell who does and who doesn't, and the ones who don't take the time to make a quality product bitch the loudest when you call them out on it. It's better to not waste your time on them, bro. Unless you're a part of the circle-jerking sycophant party, I guess.

>>341304

That's because you're a massive tool. Art and Writing are both aspects of a quest, and a weakness in either aspect weakens the quest as a whole. Neither should ever be ignored.

The formula always goes Good > Bad > None, for both art and writing. Trying to pretend that no comparison can be made because you can just ignore it is the sort of hugbox faggotry that you're trying to accuse the people saying art matters of.

Which pretty much makes you the biggest fag in the world for your 'jerk them off too,' comment.

>>341304
That's why I never went past the first few posts of Golem Quest. The writing is so awful with no pictures to distract from it, I couldn't go on.

>>341307

What I've been hinting at, what I've been trying to say without just outright saying it, is that most "quests" are so shitty that they aren't actually quests. They're just platforms for the author to boost his self esteem. If the authors put some time into them they'd actually rate, but they don't. The art is usually so awful that you either need to ignore it or go ahead and let it detract from the overall experience. The writing usually tends to range from "serviceable" to "first week of undergrad creative writing 1" with a significant chunk of "complete pap" cluttering things up.

I'd disagree with an absolute metric like "Good > Bad > None," too, because sometimes a component of a quest is so terrible that it actively detracts from the pleasure of reading it.

>>341308

>>341309
Get your pointless bitching out of here. I know there's no more anon thread, but that doesn't mean you should do that in here.

>>341309

>because sometimes a component of a quest is so terrible that it actively detracts from the pleasure of reading it.

Name me one quest that the art actually detracts from in a meaningful way.

Your entire (retarded) argument boils down to how dreadfully common this is. Do you have any examples at all?

>>341312

Hell I'll name one of YOUR quests.

http://quest.lv/kusaba/questarch/res/275963.html

Take this for example: http://quest.lv/kusaba/questarch/src/129632258137.png What the fuck am I looking at here? Seriously, what the fuck is that supposed to be? It's a confused mess of lines, with absolutely no care taken to make sure that the action is clear and the respective silhouettes of the two characters there clean enough to be easy to pick out.

Now, in fairness to you, the entire quest's art doesn't fall to the depths of horribleness that that particular image achieves. But most of the art isn't good enough to add anything of value to the quest. The quest itself has issues with being derivative and simplistic, and what little writing there is there falls into the trap of being completely dull 2nd person narration.

This: http://quest.lv/kusaba/questarch/src/129631290646.png is a good one-frame piece for a quest. It's nice and clean, there are action lines, and it's obvious what's going on even if you don't read the narration. That's the bare minimum for art that actually adds to a quest.

>>341315
So, basically, you're saying that an image that was drawn as part of a two-image sequence, the contents of which are quite obvious if one views the two images in succession, is "horrible" because when taken in isolation it's not nearly as obvious? I'm sorry, but what?

And, for that matter, you're criticizing the quest's writing based on the narrative mode? Again, I'm sorry, but what?

>>341315

>What the fuck am I looking at here?

Well, if you look at the picture that came before it, it becomes obvious that Giggi is flopping downward onto Barioth's head. Fantastico~!

I suppose I shouldn't have expected such a thing as 'understanding that the picture follows from the picture that precedes it,' but hey I guess I'm just too optimistic.

>The quest itself has issues with being derivative and simplistic,

Derivative of?

You're basically just screaming at the top of your lungs that you have nothing to actually say, no idea what you're talking about, and nothing better to do than to troll me. Do you actually have something to support your statement?

The whole time this guy has been screaming at the top of his lungs that everyone who draws a quest is just doing it to get attention, meanwhile he screams and flails for attention by calling everything shit without producing anything at all of value. He's just a whiny little shit with too much free time and not enough sense. If you don't like the site or it's content or it's users, go somewhere else. Otherwise it's pretty obvious that you're just attention whoring by trying to convince everyone that your singular opinion should be accepted by everyone.

Just shut up and fuck off, god dammit.

>>341319
>Derivative of?
The quest uses characters from Monster Hunter instead of providing much of anything actually original. The plot amounts to "misunderstood monster's big day out." There's not much of anything original, or even interesting, there.

>Well, if you look at the picture that came before it, it becomes obvious that Giggi is flopping downward onto Barioth's head. Fantastico~!
Yes because http://quest.lv/kusaba/questarch/src/129632255130.png is so totally clear too. It suffers the same problems, with the sole benefit of a wider field of view, so that the cave frames the mess of lines interacting. I picked that frame out as representative of art that detracts from a quest, and I stand by it. In that case you'd have been better off to skip the art entirely than post those two frames.

>>341317
>And, for that matter, you're criticizing the quest's writing based on the narrative mode?
No, I'm saying that part of the problem with the quest was its narrative mode, which was boring as shit.

>>341320
>Just shut up and fuck off, god dammit.

Oh goodness, criticism that you don't like! Come on, I've stated my opinions here, and been solicited for clarification on them. If you don't like that, tough shit, go back to doing whatever you want. I'm not forcing you read this. No one is.

>>341324

>The quest uses characters from Monster Hunter instead of providing much of anything actually original.

Uses character DESIGNS from monster hunter. Gigginox has no character to speak of.

>There's not much of anything original, or even interesting, there.

That's because it was a shitty one-shot quest.

>Yes because http://quest.lv/kusaba/questarch/src/129632255130.png is so totally clear too

Yes, it is. Just like you are clearly retarded.

>I picked that frame out as representative of art that detracts from a quest, and I stand by it. In that case you'd have been better off to skip the art entirely than post those two frames.

In what way does it detract from the quest? The entire point of the quest was a gigginox dicking around doing cutesy versions of things gigginox does. Actually drawing it doing those things is critical for doing that.

>Oh goodness, criticism that you don't like!

It's not that he doesn't like the criticism for no reason; it's that he is sapient and therefore capable of realizing that your chriticism is baseless and retarded.

>Come on, I've stated my opinions here, and been solicited for clarification on them.

And then chose not to provide any, instead choosing to attempt to troll me by trying to find a way to finagle one of my shitty quests into fitting your description even when it does not; just because I'm the one with whom you happen to be attempting to argue.

252e1b 2011/02/20(Sun)21:03 No. 31527 ID: 8c0848
File 129826462793.png - (136.33KB , 800x600 , important message.png )

>>341325
HEY EVERYONE. I WANT YOU TO DROP EVERYTHING AND LISTEN TO ME ABOUT HOW I HATE ATTENTION WHORES. NOW I WILL RANT ABOUT HOW I HATE PICTURES AND ONLY ENJOY LONG BLOCKS OF DRONING TEXT. MY OPINION IS RIGHT AND YOURS IS WRONG SO THERE'S NO POINT IN ARGUING. I CAN'T UNDERSTAND YOUR SHIT SCRIBBLES AT ALL AND YOU'RE ALL HORRIBLE ATTENTION WHORES.

>>341324
>And, for that matter, you're criticizing the quest's writing based on the narrative mode?
>No, I'm saying that part of the problem with the quest was its narrative mode, which was boring as shit.

...

I... what?

Do you... do you not know what the words you are typing even mean?

You seem to be somehow trying to say that you're not criticizing the quest for its narrative mode and are instead just criticizing the quest for its narrative mode.

>>341327
See, the art makes this post.

...We aren't even discussing about Executioner anymore. This wasn't what I planned for my quest at all.

I do accept criticism, and even the OP's rather harsh comments made me plan, draw, and execute(no pun intended) Executioner better. If any of you still care.

Even if this thread becomes absolutely empty, I still ask of you to take this discussion to a more appropriate place.

>>341325
Also, no one is forcing us to read this shit, but you are forcing your stupid arguments not even related to my quest anymore. Goddammit.

tl;dr : It's a thread about Executioner. DISCUSS ABOUT EXECUTIONER. Or don't, but if you're here, stay on track.

>>341326
In all honesty I have no idea what's going on in that image either. Or at least, not in the foreground portion. I do recognize the cave as being a cave.

>>341331
I wouldn't worry about it if I were you. Shit happens. This thread has now gone to shit, and is not likely to get better. Except for better in the sense that >>341327 is a fairly amusing image, I guess.

If you want further discussion of Executioner I would advise that you make an official discussion thread for it.

>>341334
That's what I am going to do.

Fuck this, I'm outta here.

>>341326

I gave you props for the stuff in the quest that I thought made sense, and I criticized the parts I thought were shit (which includes the narration, but is not limited to just the narration).

>That's because it was a shitty one-shot quest.

Cool. But it's pretty representative of the chaff that's all over the Quests board.

>>341338

It being a shitty quest does not mean that the art made it worse.

It is certainly shitty, but it wouldn't be better without the art.

>>341338
Well then, you'd better tell us what you consider good, so we can NOT mock you and laugh at you.

Lady Giggi is not a good representation of /quest/ as a whole. It is a 'good' example of what you think is a problem.

The quest would have been terrible without the images. Most of the writing is sparse, or bad, and I have not seen a single text quest beyond Furries For Jesus who can cover description in order to replace art as a whole.

There aren't even that many image quests that describe or visualize everything clear enough, but most do a good or great job.

Mind you when I say, "most," I mean the quests that are long running. One shots, and people who start and give up and leave don't fit into the collaborative 'sampling' of how i view quest.

It would be like measuring up the talent of a cooking school by taste testing food of people who attended three classes and dropped out.

Images make quests. Sequential art is a fantastic format, and I hope everyone who works on it and stays with it learns and improves from it.

>>341340
Fine, let's look at your recent quest http://quest.lv/kusaba/quest/res/282165.html then. The art is decent (as in it doesn't actively detract from the quest, though it is not always used to best effect), the writing is ok, and the premise as presented so far is utterly unoriginal (it smacks of a dozen other horror stories like "The Mist").

>Suddenly the trash can in the alley flips over and spills all over the ground. I can hear something in the darkness yowling as it runs off. Oh god!

That is flat. It's serviceable, but very flat.

"My breath caught in my throat and I jumped in surprise at a terrible clatter from the alley behind me. I cautiously peered around the edge of the brownstone building and caught sight of some little creature scampering off into the darkness, yowling. It's just a cat. I think."

Even that's not that good, but it's not nearly as flat.

>>341341

Going by your criteria there are only about a dozen active quests on the site, period. I'm talking about the entire record of quests that have been Archived or that are in Quests right now.

It's way worse if you include Graveyard, which I have not.

>>341344

You have still yet to even -validate- your criteria, so it makes you kind of a fag to rip on somebody else's.

Anonymous 2011/02/20(Sun)22:10 No. 31547 ID: bf1e7e
File 129826860720.png - (3.31KB , 750x750 , GETIT.png )

>>341343

>My breath caught in my throat and I jumped in surprise at a terrible clatter from the alley behind me. I cautiously peered around the edge of the brownstone building and caught sight of some little creature scampering off into the darkness, yowling. It's just a cat. I think.

terrible clatter (useless adjective)
cautiously peered (redundant)
brownstone (who cares)
It's worse than flat, it's gratuitously verbose.

Now what do you like?

>>341348

>Now what do you like?

hmmm.....

>It's worse than flat, it's gratuitously verbose.

10bux on Golemquest.

>>341345

My personal criteria for quest art: It should be clean, and it should be obvious what's going on even if you don't read the narration. That's the bare minimum for art that actually adds something to a quest.

My personal criteria for quest writing: It should be at least somewhat dynamic, and if the second person perspective is used extra care should be taken to not fall into the trap of flat narration.

My personal criteria for quest stories: Show some originality, you're investing your time here, the settings and basic stories should reflect that.

>>341351

>My personal criteria for quest art:

Allow me to clarify.

You have yet to establish any sort of situation on quest where art makes a quest WORSE.

>>341347
Nobody talks like that. Nobody thinks like that. Internal dialogue in that situation would likely consist entirely of "OH SHIT, WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT. OH, IT'S A FUCKING CAT. GOD DAMN." so unless I was writing from the perspective of a flowery homosexual, I would never write what you suggested.

>>341352

http://quest.lv/kusaba/quest/src/127096526355.png

What is this? Is it a cafeteria lunch platter? A space ship control panel? A collection of tools? It is a mystery unless you have the contextual cues from the post that picture accompanies. It is distracting. When the art actively distracts from the parts of the quest that do make sense, you're better off without it.

>>341353

I'm not telling you to write what I wrote, I'm saying that authors should aspire to write prose that isn't insipidly flat.

>>341351
So, art and narration that work in concert to convey their message are bad, in your mind? If I want to have the art basically convey what in standard prose would be conveyed by descriptive language, this is somehow bad and wrong?

Anonymous 2011/02/20(Sun)22:24 No. 31557 ID: bf1e7e
File 129826949682.png - (3.31KB , 750x750 , GETIT.png )

>>341354

Couldn't say without seeing the quest that it came from.

>>341355

>to write prose that isn't insipidly flat.

Again. Redundant.

There is a reason nobody is taking your claims of HORRIBLE FLATNESS seriously.

You realize that, when you have a picture, you don't need paragraphs of text describing the minute details that the picture covers, right?

>>341356
>If I want to have the art basically convey what in standard prose would be conveyed by descriptive language, this is somehow bad and wrong?
It's bad and wrong if it doesn't actually achieve that.

>>341354
>>341358
You seem to be basically saying that if you have to read the text and look at the art to understand what is going on, then it is too hard for you to understand.

I really hope you never try to read a comic book.

>>341356

Keep in mind that this guy's examples for 'standard prose' are about as purple as it gets outside of parody.

Anonymous 2011/02/20(Sun)22:31 No. 31562 ID: 38b610
File 129826990563.jpg - (54.50KB , 500x497 , pendulum.jpg )

>>341354
The one in the top left looks like the cover of In Silico.

>>341359
Actually, hell. Both of your examples have literally been "if I take this picture and ignore the context created by the words next to it then I don't know what it means, and therefore it is distracting and bad."

I really hope you never try to read a comic book.

252e1b 2011/02/20(Sun)22:33 No. 31564 ID: 8c0848
File 129826998948.png - (133.58KB , 800x600 , more important message.png )

>>341347
YOU IMBECILES JUST FAIL TO COMPREHEND MY GRANDIOSE INTELLECT. I AM SUPERIOR LINGUISTIC ARTISAN AND YOU CANNOT GRASP THE WONDER IMPARTED BY THE AMBROSIA THAT IS MY WORDS. KNAVES, I CAST YOU OUT TO WALLOW IN YOUR OWN PETULANCE.

>>341364
Now see, that's completely clear, even without context.

>>341365
I should hope so. I'm laying it on pretty thick.

Rain Cream (pony name of poster 252e1b) is a pretty effective troll. Unfortunately, there are some pretty significant detractors to this performance. Firstly, he chose an easy target, and a target that is known to be easy due to anon thread shenanigans. Secondly, he invested a lot of time and effort into this. Thirdly, his efforts are neither fun nor particularly interesting. All in all, I'll give him a 6/10.

art and text in a beautiful entwine much like the majestic leopard slugs in their extensive mating ritual, each relying on the other to produce something magnificently magical. truly this is what a quest is *smokes pipe*

>>341351
>My personal criteria for quest art: It should be clean, and it should be obvious what's going on even if you don't read the narration. That's the bare minimum for art that actually adds something to a quest.

This is so retarded I don't know what to say. Your 'bare minimum' is probably never met by any quests with images on the board. Doing clean, dynamic art that conveys the action is definitely what all artists doing quests should be aiming for, but you seem to be ignoring the medium that you are viewing in your criteria.

Art doesn't tell the story all by itself unless there is almost no complexity whatsoever. The art adds mood, character, and style to the text of the quest - each part should compliment the other. A quest is more like a comic book than an individual picture and individual story running side by side (and yes, I know that there are some comics with no text whatsoever, but I think you get what I'm saying). It should form a unitary whole.

When there is a drastic disconnect not done for humor, then you do have art actively detracting from the quest - when there is an unintentional mismatch between the art style or quality and the type of story that is being told. Alternatively, if the art is bad and frustrates attempts to understand what is going on, that would obviously also be art that detracts. It has certainly occurred on our board more than once.

I would say that several quests have suffered from one or the other of these problems, but I'd say it isn't even the majority.

>My personal criteria for quest writing: It should be at least somewhat dynamic, and if the second person perspective is used extra care should be taken to not fall into the trap of flat narration.

I think you are ignoring the medium to some degree here as well, especially since your definition of narration that isn't 'flat' is apparently 'extremely purple.' Quest authors have to understand that they are building a story that promotes interaction with an audience. Overly descriptive text can hurt a quest, and in quests where the suggesters are hearing the thoughts of the protagonist, the text should reflect the way that natural people think. The text should be more like a comic than a story because people are going to try to take as much away from the picture as they can. The text should add, not subtract, from what is going on. If the mood, style, and action are relatively clear from the image, long, flowery descriptions will just be distracting.

Unlike what you look for, the author is far more effective if both the image and the text compliment each other and neither are superfluous.

>My personal criteria for quest stories: Show some originality, you're investing your time here, the settings and basic stories should reflect that.

I agree with you completely, 100% here. It seems to me that most of your real criticism is with stories you find uninteresting, unoriginal or bland. That is completely fair. The art and text should compliment the style of the story told, though, and sometimes that will mean simple artwork and childish descriptions for something that is meant to be lighthearted and silly (like the Giganox thing) or more atmospheric artwork with present-tense stream-of thought text (like Gnoll's new thing). I'm not even saying either of these quests are great, but neither has writing or art that detracts from the story they're trying to tell. When you strip things of their context and criticize parts of something that should be intended to be viewed as a whole, you just look like an ass.

>>341363
>>341363
It's not that the quest is necessarily terrible because the art by itself doesn't convey well what its author is trying to say, but it doesn't really make it /good/, either.

>>341371

I love you.




PS. I actually do believe there are only about a dozen quests on the board currently. There are a few more finished ones archived, but yes that is what I really believe.

There are some I believe will ascend into the mix, quite a few very promising things have started lately.

I will close with stating that the 'description' for what is 'ideal' for quest art and writing is vague and flat.

Be dynamic, be interesting/"Original", don't be flat.

???

People who don't know such basic and overly general principles aren't even trying.

For clarity, only the I love you was at Bite.

>>341351
>and if the second person perspective is used
I don't understand what you're saying. This isn't even a complete sentence. How am I supposed to make any sense of your sentence fragment? "And if the second person perspective is used"? What? What are you talking about? What happens if the second person perspective is used? Why should I care?

This is ridiculous. Worst post ever made, and boring.

>>341364
I'm sorry, I can't read your words. There is a picture in the way.

>>341379
>>341351

> ...and if the second person perspective is used extra care should be taken to not fall into the trap of flat narration.

While I don't agree with the content, this sentence is no fragment.

>>341380
I picked that part out as representative of words that detract from a post, and I stand by it. In that case he'd have been better off to skip the words entirely than post that text.

>>341380
see, he's making a joke. The same way the other guy just picked a picture from two panel sequence, left out the context and then proceeded to claim that when you ignore all context and any images linked to/ preceding it, that makes an image awful. The tweest, is that he's applying it to text, because it works both ways

>>341347
This post made skimming this retarded thread worthwhile.

i'm not quite sure what this thread is all about...

is it flaming people for bad visual flow and textual whimsyness?

or is this some sort of non-writer angst against all people?

i may be dumb to say this, but i don't rightly know what in the xom's magical cane your guys are talking about...

>>341451
SO. WHY. WOULD. YOU. POST. AT. ALL.

>>341453

i'm a writer who needed to say something, :P

>>341453
So he could find out what we were talking about and maybe contribute?